Transcript

Jared McCormack

Welcome to MFA Writers, the podcast where we talk to creative writing MFA students about their program, their process, and a piece they’re working on. I’m your host, Jared McCormack. Today I’m with Matt Homrich-Knieling. Matt is a writer and educator based in Detroit, MI. He is a second-year MFA student at Western Connecticut State University focusing on creative nonfiction and editing. Matt currently serves as editor-in-chief for Poor Yorick, the literary magazine housed at West Conn's MFA program. Matt is particularly interested in reading and writing speculative memoir. He has had essays published in Brevity Blog, Metro Parent, Edsurge, and elsewhere. Matt, thanks for being here today.

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, thanks. I'm really thrilled to be here.

Jared McCormack

Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you. I'm really glad you agreed to come on. I want to start off talking about your writing because I think the genre you're working in is really interesting and really unique. Speculative memoir. I'm sure some of our listeners like me have never heard of this before. So I was hoping you could tell us what speculative memoir means to you and what makes it the right genre to tell your stories.

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, I appreciate the framing of the question of what does it mean to me? Because I think, yeah, I think, you know, I think it's a new, relatively new idea or term that's being used. I didn't come into the MFA program thinking I would write it. I didn't know that was a thing, a genre that existed. But I think how I would define it, or at least how I've come to understand it for me personally, is that there's this inherent tension in memoir that we can't ever actually tell the truth, right? Our memory is really subjective. We're often narrating things that happened to us in the past with ideas or insights we have about those experiences now that we didn't have then. So there's this tension around how memoir can never really be fully objectively true. And I think speculative memoir, instead of really trying to get as close to the objective truth as possible, really leans into the subjective nature of memory and allows for things like our imagination, our curiosity about what might have happened in our lives or what could have happened differently, really create space for us to explore those things. So I think for me writing a story, writing a memoir that's grappling with my experiences of separation anxiety, I really think about, you know, separation anxiety, mental health. Like it was really hard for me to think about how reality gets so warped in my experience of separation anxiety that it can be hard to know what is true. I'm experiencing anxiety that is based on false beliefs about what is happening. And so I think speculative memoir really gives me space to sort of explore those subjective truths.

Jared McCormack

Yeah, it's so interesting that we're having this conversation now because earlier this week I was thinking about this idea of what it means to tell a quote unquote true story because our memories are so fallible. How can we be sure anything that we think happened actually happened exactly in that way. But I was thinking about this idea that what's probably more accurate than what actually happened, the actual events that happened in our memories is how we felt during those experiences, what we felt, the emotions that we had are probably pretty accurate, right? The way that we remember them. So in what ways are you using that and playing with that when you're writing your stories?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

The sort of main approach that I'm taking is one anchor in my thesis, which, like I said, is exploring my experiences of separation anxiety and sort of thinking about some family history things and how my separation anxiety connects to some family history. One sort of anchor, which is represented in the piece that I read here at the beginning, is I had this experience with a former therapist where the therapist was sort of facilitating these conversations between me and my younger self a way of sort of getting at this part of me that experienced separation anxiety as a kid and really just being present with that part of myself and really trying to listen to it and understand it. And as I was experiencing that, it struck me that this is a really interesting way to tell the story of separation anxiety is really just sort of imagining myself in conversation with my childhood self and seeing what truths, what emotional truths I can pull from those imagined conversations. And so that's one anchor of my creative thesis that I keep coming back to.

Jared McCormack

Yeah, I love the way that you're framing that story, that excerpt that you read for us today, the idea of younger self as being another character in the story. Because I don't know about you, but when I think back on my life, often it doesn't feel like it was me who did those things when I was a little kid. It doesn't feel like it was me. It feels like a different person. And sometimes that's the way it forms in my mind. Often my memories will be in third person instead of first person. But it's interesting to approach your younger self in your story as separate from you in some way. Separate but also connected. Another character but also part of you. I imagine that's really fertile ground for a lot of exploration and your work.

Matt Homrich-Knieling

It is, yeah. I think it leads to, I think it requires a really deep level of reflection to try to think about putting myself in conversation with my younger self in a way that feels true, in a way that feels, I guess like I'm honoring my younger self. Yeah, I sort of like that it takes away the guise of like, when I'm referring to myself as an eight year old, when I feel so removed from that person. And, sometimes I don't feel like I necessarily have the, I don't know if it was the authority to speak for that person, but there's something powerful about trying to give that part of myself its own voice as much as I'm able to.

Jared McCormack

Yeah, I was just thinking as you were saying that, it probably makes it easier to empathize with your younger self. When you're just thinking of that person as yourself when you're younger, sometimes we're hard on ourselves, right? But if we were sitting down on a couch next to another young person who was going through those things that we went through, we might be more empathetic with that person. And so separating yourself from your younger self, I imagine creates some, I don't know, ability to see it more clearly and give yourself a bit more empathy, which also I imagine could be a wellspring for interesting writing.

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah. And I think it's interesting, right? So I think it's a really helpful lens to think about speculative memoir. Because obviously, this conversation between my childhood self and I in the excerpt I read didn't happen in a real physical sense. It came from a lot of reflection, a lot of trying to remember my experiences, remember what it felt like in my body. And I feel like, even though the scene itself is imagined, I think I got to more truths than I would have if I were to tell those stories from a first-person point of view as they happened. I think it allows me to get closer to some truths that I am not as readily in touch with.

Jared McCormack

Well, yeah, it's really cool to hear you talk about your writing in this way and hear all the work that you've done on this project since joining the program because you had very little creative writing experience before joining the MFA. You told me most of your writing experience at the time was from writing academic articles about education. So what made you want to pursue the MFA?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

One, on a just sort of basic level, I just really love school. I love being in school and learning. And I had almost gone to grad school for teaching or writing adjacent things several times, but I was classroom teaching at the time and I just never wanted to leave the classroom at that point. I wasn't ready. So One, it just sort of worked circumstantially for me. I was at a time where I had left teaching to stay at home with my kids and was just doing some freelance writing on the side. And as I was doing the freelance writing, which again was not super creative, it was more professional writing, but I realized just how much I missed writing. I was in high school and college, I did a lot more creative writing and then I went right into teaching ELA in writing to middle schoolers. So I spent a lot of time not thinking about or practicing my own writing, but really investing in young kids as writers, readers and writers, which was wonderful and super fulfilling and I loved it. And then when I finally left the classroom and was getting back into writing, I realized how much I missed it and how much I really loved writing. And so then it was also a good time since I wasn't teaching I had more capacity to go back to school. I also then was really interested in being part of a community of writers and having some peer support and I also still really loved teaching. So I wanted to be able to have the option of teaching and college writing in some capacity.

Jared McCormack

So now that you've been in the program for a while, what do you think the pros and cons are of coming into a program with such a clean slate with so much to learn?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, I came into the program, like I've said, I was teaching for a while and I felt very in the world of English education. I had read a lot of English education books. I attended the National English Teachers Conference every year. I sort of knew who was who. So I think because I was so deeply in that world, I knew how deeply not in the world of creative writing I was in, right? Because I know there's so much that goes into those spaces. So I think part of what made it challenging was going back to school after having been several years, lots of years out of undergrad, you know, I think it made imposter syndrome a bit easier to feel some insecurity. And I think there was also this sense of, I don't know what I don't know. But I think that lends itself really well to low residency programs or at least the one that I'm in I think you know some of the pros were that I was able to, especially that first semester, first two semesters, be clear about that with my professors and work with them to build my syllabus around. I would sort of ask them, who, I'm studying creative nonfiction, writing memoir, who do I need to have read, what are the craft books that other people in this field, if I talk to them, they will have all read this book. So I was able to be clear about that with my professors and build up my syllabus around that. And I think the other positive thing is I came in really open to, I knew I was going to be doing memoir, but I came in really open to understanding what that world was like and open to going in different directions. And I think that's part of what led me to speculative memoir, right? It was just asking questions, trying to understand the field better. And then I had a professor my second semester as I was sort of describing how I'm imagining my creative thesis to go. I had also recently read Carmen Maria Machado's in the dream house and was describing that to her and was like, I don't even know what this was. It was incredible. And she was like, I think you're describing speculative memoir. And so I think it allowed me to come in with a lot more curiosity.

Jared McCormack

Yeah, yeah. And just experiment, try different things and see what works for you. I know when you decided to pursue the MFA, you had a very strict set of criteria that you were looking for in a program, which really narrowed down your list of programs you wanted to apply to. Do you mind telling us about that process? And do you have any advice for listeners when it comes to researching programs?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

So you're right, I had a very specific list I wanted. I knew it had to be low-res. My family's pretty settled here in Detroit, so moving wasn't really an option. I knew I wanted to be able to teach in the program. And I also really wanted to have the experience of having workshops. And so those, you know, teaching and workshops aren’t super common in low res programs. So that really whittled my list down. And so I think that was super helpful. So I guess my advice would be, to be really clear about what are the experiences you want in the program and then find, you know, do your research to find programs where you'll be able to have those experiences. And it took a long time to look into all the programs, but then it was like, okay, these are my ones to choose from.

Jared McCormack

How many programs did you end up applying to?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

I applied to three. Uh, yeah, I applied to three programs.

Jared McCormack

That is a short list. I mean, you know, a lot of people probably apply to a lot more than that. So it's, it's helpful that you can narrow it down and be like, okay, these three have exactly what I'm looking for, saves you time and money when applying. And, and then you got into a program that ended up working really well for you. The more I hear about the program you're in at Western Connecticut State University, the more it sounds perfect for you. It's a two-year low residency program in creative and professional writing. The program has a lot of cool features and we're going to get into it in a bit, but I want to start with the fact that they describe themselves on their website as a program for working writers. And one way the program seems geared towards working writers is that students choose not only a creative genre to focus on, but also a professional genre. So what genres did you choose and why and what other options were out there?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yes. So the program is designed where you have to, your creative and your professional genre. So for a creative, I'm doing creative nonfiction and specifically memoir, which I was like, you know, that's what I was going, looking for an MFA program to do. But for the professional, that was, you know, not something I was thinking about as I was looking into MFA programs. And there's a lot of different options that people choose for their professional genre. People do copywriting or content writing, they do speech writing or grant writing. I decided to do editing for mine, I think it is a newer focus that they have, a newer sort of concentration. But you know, I had been doing a bit of content writing leading up to the MFA program, so I was interested in getting new professional writing skills. Yeah, and the one thing I'll add thinking about that tagline you read about it being a program for working writers, the amount of time that you finish the program in can be pretty flexible in a way that accommodates working folks. So I'm doing the program in three years, some folks do it in four years. So there's flexibility in that as well.

Jared McCormack

So yeah, you chose creative nonfiction and you chose editing for your professional genre, which the professional genre thing is not a thing that I've seen very many other programs do. So that's kind of a cool way to kind of focus in on ways you might use the MFA beyond just the creative part of it, right? I'm curious to hear you talk a little bit more about how choosing those genres affects your path through the MFA.

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, so your creative genre, it doesn't, you take the same set of courses, regardless of the genres you choose. It's just which professors you end up working with and how you design your syllabus. But for, I think it's for the professional genre, you do two courses. There's a course focused on reading within that genre, and then a course focused on writing within that genre. Some people decide at the end to do their thesis in their professional genre versus their creative. That's, I guess, another way that it would change the trajectory of the program. But otherwise, you're taking the same set of courses. Obviously, just the design of the syllabus would look really different.

Jared McCormack

So you've mentioned a couple of times this idea of designing your syllabus. That's not necessarily a thing that students have to do in all MFA programs. So what does that entail and, and just how much flexibility do you have in this program for choosing what classes you take?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Everyone takes the same courses. So there's, for example, writing in the primary genre one, two, and three. There's a genre history, theory and criticism class. They're courses that are broad umbrellas. And then before this semester starts, you meet with your professor for that course. And they sort of ask about your goals for the program, where you're at with your thesis, what readings have you done so far? It's pretty open conversations and then we work together on coming up with a reading list. There's requirements for each course. You have to turn in this many pages by the end of this course, but you can work with your professor to figure out how you want to divide that up throughout the semester. I love it. That's part of the fun for me is being able to think about things I'd really want to read in this course or asking questions to learn about things that I want to read.

Jared McCormack

OK, so you also mentioned that teaching was one of the things that you really wanted in a program, but it's not super common in low res programs. Western Connecticut State University does offer that opportunity. How does the teaching work at WCSU?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, so I'm in Detroit, as we've said, so I'm not in Connecticut. So the course that we teach that MFA students teach is called Intro to the Creative Process. It's basically an intro to creative writing course that covers fiction, creative nonfiction and poetry. And usually each semester there's two online sections of the course. And so I've been able to teach one online section each semester that I've been in the program. But a lot of folks in the program, maybe, I don't know, 75% or so of the students are in Connecticut. And so other folks do their teaching assistant in person. And yeah, and with that too, there's quite a bit of flexibility on designing your syllabus, right? We have the general structure. You're teaching those three genres, but you can choose your readings, you can choose how you want to organize the class. And then the TAs, we meet once a week with the director of our program throughout the semester to just sort of talk about how teaching is going, things we're struggling with, things we want advice on, just sort of a weekly support system.

Jared McCormack

What kind of funding do you receive in return for teaching?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

If you're teaching just one class, it would be a part-time graduate assistantship and you get a stipend of 2,400. If you're teaching two or the program has other graduate assistantship options. So some people will do a graduate assistantship in the writing center. I have a second part time one with the literary journal. So if you have a two course load or, you know, like teaching in another part time one, it's 4,800 each semester. But with that, if you're enrolled full-time as a student, you also get a fee waiver, which comes out to like a little over 3,000. Yeah, so taking full-time courses in a full-time GA ends up putting a lot towards your tuition.

Jared McCormack

You also mentioned earlier that your program requires you to take three workshops, which is another thing that's pretty unique for low res programs and something that you were really hoping to have in a program. I'm curious to hear you talk about that. Are you doing workshops online, like synchronous online workshops with people? Is this an asynchronous thing? Is this like only in person during the residency period? How do these workshops work that you were talking about earlier?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, so these are actual courses in the semester that you take. And I think I messed that up. We do four, you have to do four workshop courses throughout your time in the program. So if you were doing it in two years, you would do a workshop every semester. Yeah, so they, you know, I've done two now with two different professors. So they run them a little bit differently. But my first semester, I was in a group, you know, there were maybe 12 of us in the course. And then there was me and two other students that were in a group and we were together the whole semester. And so we would turn in our pages to each other. We would give each other feedback digitally. And then afterwards we would meet together and give each other our feedback over Zoom. And then this past semester, we switched groups every time we had to submit work. You were in a group of three to four and kind of the same setup, you know, turning your pages in to each other, giving each other feedback. And the professor for the workshop course is also giving everyone feedback on their work as well. So that's great. I really, really wanted that in a program. I think there's so much value to being able to get peer feedback and to just read your peers’ work. I learned so much from reading other people's writing. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I love that.

Jared McCormack

Yeah, a lot of low res programs outside of the residency period, you would just be doing your writing, maybe turning in pages to whatever professor you're working with that semester and getting some feedback in that way. But yeah, being able to read work from lots of different writers and think about it more deeply and provide that feedback and get that feedback from people is kind of a totally different experience. So how has it been? Has it been a lot of fun?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, it's been great. I think there's a different dynamic getting feedback from peers and from professors that I think just can feel different. And I think it also has helped me. One of the things I said earlier is, I, part of what I wanted in the MFA program was to be connected to a community of writers, which I sort of knew that desire and needing a low res program was, there's some tension between those things. So I knew there were going to be some limitations, but the workshop has definitely helped create a sense of community. I think especially coming off the residencies that we have where we're in person and it's really great. We get to be in workshops together and lectures together. And then in some way that is able to continue throughout the semester with these workshops.

Jared McCormack

Well, let's talk about those residencies a bit more. Like most low residency programs, you all meet a couple times a year in person. And your program sponsors an annual book award called the Housatonic Book Award. And the winners in each genre come to the residency and lead workshops with the students, which sounds pretty cool to me. So tell us about that experience.

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, residencies are amazing. In the summer my program holds the residency at Highlights. You know, Highlights, the magazines that are in the waiting room of the dentist office, they have a retreat center in the Poconos. And so, our summer residency is always there, which is just beautiful. And yeah, so it's about five or six days of just a packed schedule of workshops and lectures. And like you said, the program has the Housatonic Book Awards, which every year there's a fiction, nonfiction and poetry book that receives the award. And then those authors come, they give a lecture or a reading or a workshop. And then one evening, they do a reading and then a Q&A, just sort of an open conversation period. So that's been really, really cool. My first year was great. We had Jason Mott, who wrote Hell of a Book, which was the National Book Award winner, and Sandra Beasley, who's a really great poet. And I think it's cool because it's, people outside of your genre as well. You really get to learn a lot of things outside your genre that you always find ways to bring back to your own writing.

Jared McCormack

And when you say they come and do a workshop, that means are you giving them your work and they're giving you some feedback on it?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

No, most of them are more lecture style. What's cool though is that there's at least the option, which isn't a requirement of being a Housatonic Book Award winner. But there's an option where if you really, really resonated with one of them, got along really well with one of the Book Award winners, you could talk to the program director who could reach out to them and ask if they would be a faculty mentor for you for one of your courses in a subsequent semester. Which is cool, yeah, so it expands your options of who you can work with throughout the program.

Jared McCormack

That's great. And I also saw on the website that students have the option to maybe do a residency in Dublin.

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, every fall, there's a Dublin residency. I haven't done it. I don't anticipate doing it. It's just hard for me, having young kids at home. But people who do it love it. People really, really love the residency. And that also counts as one of your residencies. So you have to do four throughout your time in the program. so that counts as one of your requirements as well. Yeah, so I can't speak much to the experience other than everyone who's done it says that they really love it.

Jared McCormack

Well, one last cool thing about the program that I wanted to talk about is the fact that the literary magazine Poor Yorick is housed in the program, which is not super common for low res programs to have a journal that the students can work on. And you are currently the editor in chief. So how's that experience been?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, that was another thing that I didn't have as a criteria for a program. When I saw that it had a literary journal, I was really excited about that. It's been great. Last year, I, my second semester, I volunteered as a reader. And so this year, I'm editor in chief, we actually just closed our submissions for our spring issue, January 1. It's been really, really great. It's weird being on the backside of a journal. But It's been, you know I work with a team of, I've got two lead readers for fiction and poetry. And then we've got a couple other folks in the program who support with reading as well. So it's been another cool opportunity to be collaborating with students in the program and talking about people's writing. Also, just like with workshops, you learn so much from seeing what other people are doing in their writing and it's, I think for me, just sort of demystifying the literary journal world, right? Like there's just people behind it, reading your submissions and having really hard conversations about, you know, sometimes it's like this is a really, really great piece of writing. We love it. Do we see it fitting within this issue? Do we see it in our vision for the theme? You know, so yeah, it's been, it's been really cool.

Jared McCormack

Yeah, I mean, I worked on a literary magazine when I was in my program as well, and it's right up there near the top of recommendations that I give um MFA students. If you can work on a literary magazine, even just as a reader, I think it's super beneficial just to see the process to see how many submissions come in and how these magazines make those decisions. I found it super useful when I was a student. Have you noticed it changing your writing at all? Have you noticed it changing your submission process, how you think about submissions, anything like that?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

I think in terms of my submission process, I feel maybe, I don't want to say more confident because I don't feel more confident, but just sort of like, I guess maybe taking it less personally or it feels maybe a little bit lower stakes sending things off places. And I think in terms of writing, you just see so many cool things that people are doing or experimenting with different forms, different structures. We're pretty deep right now in finishing going through all of our submissions. So I’m excited to see what else we have.

Jared McCormack

Yeah, one of the big things that I learned was to stop being so hard on myself because what I found was that so many of the decisions around what gets accepted and what doesn't have nothing to do with the writing itself. It just has to do with, does it fit into this issue or like, okay, we have 10 great stories, but we can only pick six of them. We're just going to have to cut four great stories. You just never know when you submit if yours was one of those great stories that just didn't quite fit in that issue. I learned to stop taking rejection as an indictment on my writing.

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Right. Right. Yeah. And you know, sometimes you start to see ways in which submissions fit really well together and can be sort of in conversation with each other, which then, yeah, like you're saying, you know, not accepting other pieces then doesn't have anything to do with the quality of that writing. It's just that it's not sort of fitting in with how the issue is taking shape.

Jared McCormack

Well, all of this has been super interesting, the speculative memoir stuff. Super interesting. The program sounds really unique. Before we go, I want to give you the last word. What is one way in which the MFA experience has been different, for better or for worse, from your expectations when applying?

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, I think, you know, I sort of said this earlier, but I think the extent to which I feel part of a community of writers in a low res program, I think is different than what I was expecting. It was what I was hoping for, but maybe I had lower expectations for the extent to which I would feel part of a community in a low res program. But I think through the workshops, through teaching, so getting able to interact with undergrad students in the university and then meeting weekly with the TAs, I just feel really, yeah, part of a program in a way that I wasn't expecting in a low res program.

Jared McCormack

Well, Matt, this has been great. Thank you so much for stopping by. Wish you all the luck on finishing up that thesis project. Good luck with all those submissions at Poor Yorick. Really appreciate you taking the time and chatting with me.

Matt Homrich-Knieling

Yeah, thanks so much. I really, really loved the conversation.